A friend of mine who shall remain nameless (for his own protection) shared my original Death Star v. Borg Cube blog post with an American Bar Association listserv for lawyers in solo practice and those interested in solo practice issues (appropriately names Solesez). I found the responses to be very entertaining, and it more or less confirmed everything I've ever thought about lawyers being big damn nerds. I’ll let their points speak for themselves or this post will go on forever, but suffice it to say I agree with conclusion that the Firefly-class ship Serenity (with, at a minimum, Mal and River Tam on board) would soundly defeat both the Borg Cube and the Death Star, probably by turning them on each other. Browncoats are just too pretty to die.
I have edited the thread to protect the geeky and to save space. Specifically I deleted some of the more generic posts, and those that don’t bear on the argument at hand. Please enjoy.
Forwarded conversation
Subject: Deathstar v. Borg Cube
------------------------
From: [edited]
Subject: Deathstar v. Borg Cube
------------------------
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:30 PM
To: solosez <SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org>
http://dontforgetthechaos.blogspot.com/2011/07/celebrity-deathmatch-death-start-versus.html
A buddy of mine posted this on his blog and I wanted to see what this collective said about the Deathstar v. Borg Cube debate.
From:[edited]
To: solosez <SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org>
http://dontforgetthechaos.blogspot.com/2011/07/celebrity-deathmatch-death-start-versus.html
A buddy of mine posted this on his blog and I wanted to see what this collective said about the Deathstar v. Borg Cube debate.
From:[edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 1:44 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Oh, Borg Cube. Setting aside his bias, I agree with his analysis.
[OMG - did I just post on ST / StW in a public place?]
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Oh, Borg Cube. Setting aside his bias, I agree with his analysis.
[OMG - did I just post on ST / StW in a public place?]
-----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:09 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Hands down. It is well established that Kirk's ship had planet busting
abilities. Picard's ship was more powerful than Kirk's. The Borg cube
was vastly more powerful than Picard's ship. Simple A > B, B > C, thus
A > C, the Borg cube is more powerful than Kirk's ship.
The Lucas contraption required a veritable planetoid to reach planet
busting power. It wouldn't stand a chance against the Roddenberry.
Unless their agents cut a deal.
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Hands down. It is well established that Kirk's ship had planet busting
abilities. Picard's ship was more powerful than Kirk's. The Borg cube
was vastly more powerful than Picard's ship. Simple A > B, B > C, thus
A > C, the Borg cube is more powerful than Kirk's ship.
The Lucas contraption required a veritable planetoid to reach planet
busting power. It wouldn't stand a chance against the Roddenberry.
Unless their agents cut a deal.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:16 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Resistance is Futile! Borg Cube in the first round!
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Resistance is Futile! Borg Cube in the first round!
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 2:18 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
You know you're a geek if you read through the whole thing (and get past the
cute how I met my wife part of it).
Before reading I said "Borg - no contest."
Nanu Nanu.
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
You know you're a geek if you read through the whole thing (and get past the
cute how I met my wife part of it).
Before reading I said "Borg - no contest."
Nanu Nanu.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:02 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Oh, please, this is simply SO silly. First, I never did care for any of the
star treks after Kirk: just never saw the point behind Captian Jean Luc
Picard.
And, obviously, EITHER ONE (deathstar OR the borg thingie) wouldn't stand a
chance against a General Systems Vehicle (and that's not a Larry Niven
General Products ship, that's a Culture ship as the real geeknoscenti
recognize). Bah.
----
From: [edited]
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Oh, please, this is simply SO silly. First, I never did care for any of the
star treks after Kirk: just never saw the point behind Captian Jean Luc
Picard.
And, obviously, EITHER ONE (deathstar OR the borg thingie) wouldn't stand a
chance against a General Systems Vehicle (and that's not a Larry Niven
General Products ship, that's a Culture ship as the real geeknoscenti
recognize). Bah.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:38 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Really, it's a silly question. If a rag-tag bunch of rebels with
crappy ships can take the death star how could it possibly stand up to
the Borg?
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Really, it's a silly question. If a rag-tag bunch of rebels with
crappy ships can take the death star how could it possibly stand up to
the Borg?
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 3:51 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
An X-Wing is NOT a crappy ship! You take that back!
Besides, Data defeated the Borg ship by basically emailing them to go to
sleep via Locutus-Picard. The Borg unquestioningly started their
"regenerative cycle" triggering a power cascade blowing up the entire ship.
The collective was the weakness. If you're going to penalize the Death Star
for having an achille's heal, at least apply the standard consistently.
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
An X-Wing is NOT a crappy ship! You take that back!
Besides, Data defeated the Borg ship by basically emailing them to go to
sleep via Locutus-Picard. The Borg unquestioningly started their
"regenerative cycle" triggering a power cascade blowing up the entire ship.
The collective was the weakness. If you're going to penalize the Death Star
for having an achille's heal, at least apply the standard consistently.
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:01 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
I can't imagine the Borg wouldn't have learned the weaknesses of the Death
Star. I mean, seriously, we are talking about the Borg. Between the
in-fighting on the Death Star and the inevitable vent holes which lead to
it's downfall, I'm sure the Borg are plenty ahead of the game.
This is fun.
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
I can't imagine the Borg wouldn't have learned the weaknesses of the Death
Star. I mean, seriously, we are talking about the Borg. Between the
in-fighting on the Death Star and the inevitable vent holes which lead to
it's downfall, I'm sure the Borg are plenty ahead of the game.
This is fun.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:19 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Deathstar all the way. But rules of engagement are necessary here. Is it a
standoff? Sneak attack?
Even in the blog post, it says death star with no Jedi's, sith or otherwise.
Well how about a borg ship with no Borg on it then.
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Deathstar all the way. But rules of engagement are necessary here. Is it a
standoff? Sneak attack?
Even in the blog post, it says death star with no Jedi's, sith or otherwise.
Well how about a borg ship with no Borg on it then.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:22 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Many Bothans had to die in order for the Rebels to learn the Death Star's
weakness. They were willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of
the Rebel Alliance but would not have done so for the Borg. No Bothan
sacrifice, no knowledge of weakness.
The Borg win because they're the Borg is kind of circular logic. What makes
them so all powerful?
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Many Bothans had to die in order for the Rebels to learn the Death Star's
weakness. They were willing to sacrifice themselves for the greater good of
the Rebel Alliance but would not have done so for the Borg. No Bothan
sacrifice, no knowledge of weakness.
The Borg win because they're the Borg is kind of circular logic. What makes
them so all powerful?
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:33 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
I think ground rules would have to be stated. The Borg might not attack the
Death Star directly--all they'd have to do is get a few Borg inside and
start assimilating the crew.
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
I think ground rules would have to be stated. The Borg might not attack the
Death Star directly--all they'd have to do is get a few Borg inside and
start assimilating the crew.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 4:41 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence, e.g. that Borg teleportation
technology is not disrupted by shields generated by a small base on the
forest moon of Endor.
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Objection, assumes facts not in evidence, e.g. that Borg teleportation
technology is not disrupted by shields generated by a small base on the
forest moon of Endor.
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 5:48 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
The Borg would have the death star for lunch and the Borg Queen would dance on the emperor's head. Resistance is futile!
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
The Borg would have the death star for lunch and the Borg Queen would dance on the emperor's head. Resistance is futile!
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:13 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Ahh but what about mind control and suggestions on the borg? Are they, due
to being a collective with no individual thought, as weak minded as
stormtroppers and thus easily persuaded to bow to the situation bidding?
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Ahh but what about mind control and suggestions on the borg? Are they, due
to being a collective with no individual thought, as weak minded as
stormtroppers and thus easily persuaded to bow to the situation bidding?
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:22 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Yeah I thought about that as well and my thought is it wouldn't work on the Borg because of the collective. Don't think any Jedi mind tricks would work on several billion collective minds.
----
From: [edited]
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Yeah I thought about that as well and my thought is it wouldn't work on the Borg because of the collective. Don't think any Jedi mind tricks would work on several billion collective minds.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:40 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Fascinating.
Initally, I would have gone with the Death Star because, as is pointed out
in the blog post, "It's the Death Star." I find it hard to see how a Borg
Cube could withstand firepower on that magnetude. I would also point out
that even the Borg haven't destroyed entire planets, and Species 8472 (or
whatever it is) was able to destroy hundreds of cubes with what appeared to
be less firepower than can be mustered by the Death Star.
However, the poster's comment about the lack of maneouverabilty is
persuasive. If the Death Star can't target the Cube, it's firepower is
irrelevant.
Then again, we all know that the Borg tend to ignore anything they don't
interpret as a threat.
So, round 1, in almost all scenarios (Death Star vs. Borg Cube, surprise or
no surprise) I'm going to say Death Star, easily.
Subsequent rounds will undoubtedly go to the Borg, as would a long
protracted confrontation. The Empire could not possibly win a war of
attrition against the Borg.
Regardless, all talk of Jedi's, Siths, Emperors, and mind tricks, etc is
foolish. We all know that stuff isn't real.
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Fascinating.
Initally, I would have gone with the Death Star because, as is pointed out
in the blog post, "It's the Death Star." I find it hard to see how a Borg
Cube could withstand firepower on that magnetude. I would also point out
that even the Borg haven't destroyed entire planets, and Species 8472 (or
whatever it is) was able to destroy hundreds of cubes with what appeared to
be less firepower than can be mustered by the Death Star.
However, the poster's comment about the lack of maneouverabilty is
persuasive. If the Death Star can't target the Cube, it's firepower is
irrelevant.
Then again, we all know that the Borg tend to ignore anything they don't
interpret as a threat.
So, round 1, in almost all scenarios (Death Star vs. Borg Cube, surprise or
no surprise) I'm going to say Death Star, easily.
Subsequent rounds will undoubtedly go to the Borg, as would a long
protracted confrontation. The Empire could not possibly win a war of
attrition against the Borg.
Regardless, all talk of Jedi's, Siths, Emperors, and mind tricks, etc is
foolish. We all know that stuff isn't real.
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 6:45 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
The borg can shoot better than stormtroopers. The borg actually hit their
targets.
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
The borg can shoot better than stormtroopers. The borg actually hit their
targets.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 7:02 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
When the Rebel Alliance comes out of hyperspace against the second Death
Star, they "witness the firepower of [the] *fully* armed and *operational
battle station" **as it picks apart Mon Calamari cruisers with its planet
destroying laser. Enough with the Death Star couldn't hit the Cube
argument.*
I can't believe I'm still engaged in this thread instead of finishing my
response to a MSJ due tomorrow. Damn you geek gene!
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
When the Rebel Alliance comes out of hyperspace against the second Death
Star, they "witness the firepower of [the] *fully* armed and *operational
battle station" **as it picks apart Mon Calamari cruisers with its planet
destroying laser. Enough with the Death Star couldn't hit the Cube
argument.*
I can't believe I'm still engaged in this thread instead of finishing my
response to a MSJ due tomorrow. Damn you geek gene!
----
From: [edited[
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:01 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Oh, for Pete's sake, people! Move on!
Serenity over Deathstar.
Serenity over Borg Cube.
Hutzpah beats overwhealming odds
like scissors beat paper.
----
From: [edited]
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Oh, for Pete's sake, people! Move on!
Serenity over Deathstar.
Serenity over Borg Cube.
Hutzpah beats overwhealming odds
like scissors beat paper.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:09 PM
To: [edited], SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
You have a point. Serenity has River...and we really don't know what she is capable of.
----
From: [edited]
To: [edited], SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
You have a point. Serenity has River...and we really don't know what she is capable of.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:27 PM
To: [edited]
To: [edited]
Cc: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
River hmmph. Serenity has Captain Tightpants who always comes up with a plan that works -- eventually. Zoe who kicks ass - literally. Jayne and his arsenal. Kaylee who can sweetalk that ship into doing anything. And Wash who can fly that ship places it shouldn't be flown once Kaylee sweettalks her. (In my world, the BDM never happened).
River hmmph. Serenity has Captain Tightpants who always comes up with a plan that works -- eventually. Zoe who kicks ass - literally. Jayne and his arsenal. Kaylee who can sweetalk that ship into doing anything. And Wash who can fly that ship places it shouldn't be flown once Kaylee sweettalks her. (In my world, the BDM never happened).
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:44 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Yeah, I think Serenity has it, I mean look at what they did just to get
around the reavers!
And I'm pretty sure the Tams could take out they Death Star AND the Borg
before they even knew there was a fight :)
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Yeah, I think Serenity has it, I mean look at what they did just to get
around the reavers!
And I'm pretty sure the Tams could take out they Death Star AND the Borg
before they even knew there was a fight :)
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:55 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
two words ... Kobayashi Maru ... pfffft!!!
Live Long & Prosper!!
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
two words ... Kobayashi Maru ... pfffft!!!
Live Long & Prosper!!
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 9:35 PM
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Batman always wins.
----
To: SOLOSEZ@mail.americanbar.org
Batman always wins.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 10:18 PM
My money would be on a fully operational Deathstar, provided rebel forces are not a factor.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 11:03 PM
To: [edited]
Oh yea, River Tam rocks. But then so does the whole crew. Of course, better script and acting helps a lot too.
The Serenity crew and Mr. Universe (aka Charlie Epps) [and maybe a few "dolls"] could make short work of the a Borg Cube or a Death Star. Probably turn them on each other and make us all laugh in the process.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 7:51 AM
Of course the Borg teleport onto Endor before heading towards the Death
Star. Yes, they first assimilate the small oddly Wookie like looking chub
chub peeps which name escapes those of us who really didn't retain to that
level of detail... chub chub. ♪
----
From: [edited]
From: [edited]
Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:22 AM
That would be, methinks, the adorable teddy-bear-like Ewoks.
What an interesting mental image ... Borg Ewoks....
----
From: [edited]
Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:40 AM
At the risk of belabouring the obvious, and on the heels of a "Kobayashi
Maru" reference upthread, it really comes down to who's show it is. I
mean, hell, Dazzler beat Doom in her first ish. Point being, what makes
this sort of thing fun is seeing the underdog win, be it the Rebel
Alliance, Kirk, Captain Tightpants, whomever.
It makes sense that lawyers of all professions are drawn to this sort of
fantasy. First, our business all too often manifests pretty much the
opposite scenario: Little guys crushed by big guys, evil getting off on
a technicality, innocent men hanging that jurors might dine. Second, and
possibly more important in the collective psyche, our very system of law
is premised on the story of David and Goliath. It is founded on the
notion that God will not let an unjust cause prevail, although in our
modern state we have substituted "the System" for "God".
In fantasy (science or other) the writer plays God and, generally, we in
the reading and viewing audience require our heroes to "Never give up,
never surrender!"
----
From: [edited]
Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 10:49 AM
Borg Ewoks--highly useful for a Borg assault on the Muppets or Sesame
Street. "Hi kids, the word of the day is . . . assimilate."
----
From: [edited]
Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 11:59 AM
Borg Bert & Ernie? That would bring the Borg world to its knees.
----
From: [edited]
Date: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 12:09 PM
I really love this thread! It is making a very long week much more bearable.
It is also enabling some very serious Friday morning procrastination.
My vote is for the Borg. It's a completely biased vote due to my love of
Star Trek. (But my dog, Poppins, looks just like an ewok. We almost named
her Wicket.) I do think that the Borg as a villain are more unique than the
Empire. More of a political or societal concept than pure "bad guys" with a
cool weapon, which makes their defeat more challenging. I agree with most of
the blog poster's analysis of the two technologies.
The blog post reminds me of one of my favorite Star Trek/Star Wars
comparisons, which is from Lene Taylor, one of the duo behind the "Look at
His Butt" podcast, a Star Trek/William Shatner podcast that I've been
listening to for years. She has a proposal for a talk to give to a local
cynics group about why Star Trek is the more appropriate fandom for cynics
because much of Star Wars is based upon belief in the "magical" power of the
Jedi, whereas in Star Trek, the heroes usually triumph due to their human or
human-like qualities and science. I think that it's a great debate to get
into, especially with devoted fans of each franchise. The belief in some
sort of magic is one of the bigger differences between most of science
fiction and the rest of the fantasy genre. I love both!
